Windows 8

[phil]

OK So windows 8 is almost apon us....

I'm personally still not convinced of the new GUI (especially the start menu) but it might grow on me.
Anyway, there are loads of new key-combos in Win8 that I am thinking about adding to the dropdown action selection (for example, show charms bar) etc.

What do you all think? I realise that's a rather open question but it might give me some good ideas.
I'm not sure if it will be possible to define mouse settings for individual METRO apps - its something I need to investigate. I have managed to make the scroll wheel behave different over metro apps, but it applies to ALL metro apps not just, for example, the music app.

I guess that's the way they are all hosted in internet explorer type windows behind the scenes... Maybe there is a way to tell them apart (task manager can).

Thoughts?

[DavidFoster]

Windows 3.x -- OK
Windows 95 -- Sucks
Windows 98 -- OK
Windows Me -- Sucks
Windows XP -- OK
Windows Vista -- Sucks
Windows 7 -- OK
Windows 8....

Is there a pattern here?

EDIT: And, no, I haven't tried 8 yet.. It looks like a glorified cellphone app to me.

[phil]

Yes there is a pattern of sorts, except maybe 95 - it was so much better than 3.x on its release... I remember downloading it on 40 floppy disks - that I still have somewhere lol.

However, unlike Vista, 8 is fast... damn fast. But your right about the GUI - still so far I seem to have gotten round most of the nasty bits with other addons (shame but it works) and its still damn fast!

We shall see. When MSDN gets the RTM next week I might actually install as primary OS (and I didn't think Id be saying that 2 months ago lol)

[DavidFoster]

Well, good luck to you! Personally, I got out of "test mode" after about the first week of running Windows Vista. Went back to XP with a vengeance; and swore I would never upgrade again unless my life depended on it! It probably didn't help that I was both a Windows 98 AND a Windows Me Beta tester (I still have those disks around here somewhere too).

[skuffle]

I've gone from completely hating it to being mostly converted. I nearly went back to 7 when I reinstalled recently, but I love the speed (especially on startup), and I don't think I can live without the 'right-click in the bottom left corner' shortcuts - so much easier for getting into Disk Management or Programs and Features.

Also the extra large new buttons on the Explorer ribbon come in pretty handy for moving and copying files. I still hate the giant start menu though

[phil]

I agree - that right click menu is a must - I've found myself missing it in my other Win 7 machines already lol!!!
I've even avoided 3rd part start menu addons for the last week - and its not all bad - although I think the new start "menu" will be a royal PITA on a slow remote desktop session (not tried it yet though!).

As for the ribbon - I havnt used it much and it takes quite a lot of screen real-estate on my laptop but I like it non-the-less. I know many people have a problem with the ribbon interfaces but generally I like them. Glad to see the "up" button back by default in explorer too - that was sorely missed in Windows Vista/7 IMHO.

Phil

[skuffle]

Yes, I'm generally a fan of the much-hated ribbon interfaces - once you get over the initial adjustment to them (which is painful in Office, I'll admit), it is much easier to find what you need, as you're navigating by icons rather than reading text.

It's more productive in the long-run, but I can see why people hate having such a dramatic change in interface thrust on them - especially in a business setting where it involves retraining. And as much as I have never used touch with a PC, I can see it's the way it is going for the masses, as tablets become the norm and more people are just 'consuming' media rather than creating. It's just a shame there isn't a way to transition people over gently or differentiate the 'desktop' from the 'tablet' interface.

Microsoft's market does risk being eaten by the Apple and Android tablets if they don't respond, but I think they have annoyed quite a large market - the business user - by forcing the interface on them wholesale. I think they will find a middle-ground in the next service pack or Windows 9.

[EdCutrell]

So I've been using Windows 8 RTM for a few days and finally got around to installing x-mouse. Mostly everything is working as expected, but for some reason, invert mouse wheel scrolling stopped working. Has anybody tried this out yet? I've tried a few things to see if I can get it working, but so far no joy. I have to admit that the version of x-mouse I was using before (when it was working on Win7) seems to be a bit older than the current one (I'm honestly not sure what version it was, but scrolling didn't have its own tab in that one).

Would love to know if this is only me or is a bug/something new.

[skuffle]

invert mouse wheel scrolling stopped working. Has anybody tried this out yet?

Just tried it on my Logitech trackball with scroll wheel - inverting scroll works fine for me. x64 Win8 RTM with v2.5 of XMBC.

[EdCutrell]

Hmmm, weird. I've got pretty much the same setup: x64 Win8 RTM with v2.5 of XMBC. I'm using a Kensington trackball with scroll wheel--while all the other functionality is fine (mapping buttons, even remapping other function to the wheel), the invert scroll wheel function doesn't do anything.
I guess for the time being I'll just try to remap my brain .

[phil]

I just tried it here on my Win 8 x64 laptop - seems to be working fine. You realise that the option is application profile specific these days? Setting on on default should do all apps unless you configure them differently?

If you want, turn on debug logging (advanced settings) and then go do some scrolling before turning debug logging back off - then post a snippet of the log here or PM it to me. I'm away from home right now but should be back by Monday so I will check it out then if I can.

Thanks,
Phil

[EdCutrell]

OK, so here are two snips from the log file. First with Invert Mouse Wheel Off:

27-08-2012 12:16:36.0986> MouseHookData: Message=0x020a (WM_MOUSEWHEEL), X=1449, Y=726, mouseData=0x00780000, flags=0x00000000, time=332185986, dwExtraInfo=0x0, MouseHookPtr=0xAA80FC3
27-08-2012 12:16:36.0986> Translating WheelUp Button Down Keystate 0x0: Action 40 [** No Change (Don't intercept) **]
27-08-2012 12:16:36.0986> Translating WheelUp Button Up Keystate 0x0: Action 40 [** No Change (Don't intercept) **]
27-08-2012 12:16:37.0937> MouseHookData: Message=0x020a (WM_MOUSEWHEEL), X=1449, Y=726, mouseData=0xFF880000, flags=0x00000000, time=332186937, dwExtraInfo=0x0, MouseHookPtr=0xAA80FC3
27-08-2012 12:16:37.0937> Translating WheelDown Button Down Keystate 0x0: Action 40 [** No Change (Don't intercept) **]
27-08-2012 12:16:37.0937> Translating WheelDown Button Up Keystate 0x0: Action 40 [** No Change (Don't intercept) **]

Next with Invert Mouse Wheel On:

27-08-2012 12:09:09.0466> MouseHookData: Message=0x020a (WM_MOUSEWHEEL), X=1471, Y=625, mouseData=0x00780000, flags=0x00000000, time=331738466, dwExtraInfo=0x0, MouseHookPtr=0xAA80FC3
27-08-2012 12:09:09.0466> Invert mouse wheel!
27-08-2012 12:09:09.0466> Translating WheelDown Button Down Keystate 0x0: Action 40 [** No Change (Don't intercept) **]
27-08-2012 12:09:09.0466> Translating WheelDown Button Up Keystate 0x0: Action 40 [** No Change (Don't intercept) **]
27-08-2012 12:09:10.0058> MouseHookData: Message=0x020a (WM_MOUSEWHEEL), X=1471, Y=625, mouseData=0xFF880000, flags=0x00000000, time=331739058, dwExtraInfo=0x0, MouseHookPtr=0xAA80FC3
27-08-2012 12:09:10.0058> Invert mouse wheel!
27-08-2012 12:09:10.0058> Translating WheelUp Button Down Keystate 0x0: Action 40 [** No Change (Don't intercept) **]
27-08-2012 12:09:10.0058> Translating WheelUp Button Up Keystate 0x0: Action 40 [** No Change (Don't intercept) **]

In both cases, scrolling output is the same. Thanks for looking--would love to know if there's any hint here of what's going on!

[phil]

From the log it appears to be doing the right thing.... I presume you mean the actual response in windows is the same.... The fact that the log suggests the invert has happened is odd... I will look in to it.

What windows are you trying to scroll? I've only tried it in firefox so far and that worked.

Phil

[EdCutrell]

This is the same for any window/application I've tried--IE, Firefox, Chrome, windows explorer, outlook, whatever. This log is from IE, I think, but it's uniformly the case--scrolling in all windows is the same whether the invert check box is checked or not.

I could try installing an older version of x-mouse that I know worked on this same system with Win7. When I upgraded to Win8, I just installed the new version of x-mouse. Would that be helpful?

[phil]

Yes it would be helpful - just because I can then look for differences in the code between versions if it works on an older one.... On the other hand, I don't understand why its working for me and not for you. Could you send me a copy of your settings XML file? Its in the same folder as the log. PM/Email it to me rather than attaching it publicly if you want. That way I can be sure I have the same settings as you and then see if the problem exists on here.

If you need a link to older versions, let me know - I have them all on-line here still.

Thanks,
Phil