Help with making X-Mouse button control work for my Xai?

[hfcobra]

I just cannot seem to make it work for my mouse at all. I am trying to bind the side buttons to Ctrl and Shift for use in Starcraft 2, but no matter what I do nothing happens.


I am running windows 7 64-bit
version 2.0 of XMBC
Mouse is steelseries Xai, which I believe has 9 programmable buttons
driver version of the mouse is 1.4.2
I have the steelseries mouse configuration tool installed for this mouse


No matter what I do the program does not seem to work for me. Through the driver software that comes with the mouse, the side buttons cannot be held down and when held they simply act as if they had been pressed and released immediately. You can make a macro that delays that so that it counts as a keyboard button being held down for X seconds when you press the button, but that is not nearly the amount of control that I would like to have.

I came across your software and believed it was my saving grace since this mouse is literally perfect for me other than this very irritating problem. The problem is, I cannot get XMBC to work.

For the record all I want to do is map the 2 thumb buttons on the left side of the mouse (for a right-handed person) to shift and ctrl so that I can hold down the side button for either one and have it count as holding the key until I release the side button; which should then release the key it is bound to.

Please help I really like this mouse but this is just a dealbreaker for me and there is nothing else like this mouse out there right now.

[phil]

Hi,

Unfortunately, if your mouse is not sending the messages XMBC expects, then XMBC will not be of any use. XMBC relies on the "normal" windows messages form the mouse which it intercepts and remaps.

Do the fields in the setup window highlight when you press the 4th and 5th buttons (like I presume they do for the first 3 buttons)? If they flash, then the best you can do, is a macro as you say. If they don't stay highlighted (in orange) when the button is down (which I think is what your describing) then there is no way you can have any "hold" type of configuration.

Have you tried using the generic windows mouse driver (I suspect this will not work because it sounds like its the hardware sending a pulse message instead of a discreet down/up combo. This is how the tilt wheel and scroll wheel work on most mice and is why you cant use the tilt/scroll for any "hold" type event either.

I've never heard of a mouse that does this with the 4th and 5th buttons though - this is a first!

Thanks and sorry I cant be more optimistic on this one,
Phil

[phil]

Actually, there may be one slim possibility of a work around here...

Its probably not quite what your after but it might just work depending on the hardware.
In simulated keystrokes, for the how to send method, try choosing "Sticky (Held down until button is pressed again)" which was added in v2.0.

This will probably mean that you have to press the button to set it and again to release it, but its possible that the button sends a "pulse" on press and another on release so its worth a try.

Thanks,
Phil

[MainTrane]

Does XMBC not work at all with the XAI, or is it only the side buttons that are not programmable?

If you can't get the program to work at all, then the SteelSeries software isn't sending compatible messages.

If you're only seeing the orange highlight when using the more common buttons (Left,Right,Middle), then the side buttons aren't mapped to the standard functions recognized by XMBC. Assigning the side buttons to generic buttons 4/5 (what that's actually called in SteelSeries' software I don't know) should allow XMBC to receive messages from the side buttons.

If the mouse does not work at all with XMBC or you can't find a setting for the side buttons in the SteelSeries software that works with XMBC, then finding an alternate/generic mouse driver is the only option.

If you are able to get XMBC to recognize the buttons; mapping them to a simulated keystroke assignment - using the during or sticky hold method - will give you what you're looking for.

P.S.
"Through the driver software that comes with the mouse, the side buttons cannot be held down and when held they simply act as if they had been pressed and released immediately." - this is the way most any mouse will function when given a standard keystroke assignment. XMBC can work around this if it receives recognizable messages from the mouse driver.

FWIW,
Logitech's higher end gaming mice (G500,G700,G9) use a software that gives keyboard perfect keystroke assignments. Meaning, holding a mouse button assigned to a keystroke will function exactly like holding down keys on a keyboard.

[hfcobra]

hello, sorry for not getting back sooner than this. The XMBC does light up and stays lit up while I hold down the button. For some reason mouse button 4 and 5 on the XMBC do not light up when I press the mouse button 4 and 5 on the mouse. Instead the tilt wheel left and right light up. I figured that this was no big deal and I would just assign the keystroke assignment to that button instead but it did not work. It still lights up in the XMBC profile page and stays lit for as long as I hold the button down. That is why I am asking for some help.

EDIT: Do I need to keep the XMBC window open while I play for it to work? I have tried it both open and closed but I thought that I would ask anyways to be sure.

EDIT: Whenever I assign a key that is a letter to one of these buttons then they work just fine in notepad. When I hold the button the letters just keep being typed as if I was holding the key down like normal. I started up Starcraft 2 and tried the same thing in a chat window and it worked just fine again. For some reason the Ctrl and Shift keys do not work when assigned to these buttons on my mouse and I do not know why. I am typing them in like {CTRL} and {SHIFT} without any spaces but they do not work. Am I typing them incorrectly?

EDIT: Never mind, I have managed to make it work. You must leave the settings for the SS drivers on their default setting (for the button settings at least) or the XMBC setting will not be able to intercept the mouse signals.

Just letting you know in case someone else has this same problem at some time in the future. Thanks for the help that you have given!

[phil]

I will try and answer your questions in order...

1. If the tilt buttons highlight then those buttons on the mouse are sending tilt messages. This explains why you cant do what you want tilt messages are different, single shot messages (see my original reply).

2. You don't need the setup/configuration window open as long as XMBC is still running (icon in the system tray) it will be working.

3. The tilt (and scroll wheel) messages are single shot, that is send only one message rather than two (down and up). The tilt messages get repeated automatically by the mouse or mouse driver. That is probably why the letters repeat, not because the key is being held down.

.....
4. Oh. I wish I had read to the end before typing all this
Great that you have got it working - thanks for letting us know.

Thanks,
Phil

[Lovvi]

Hey, I'm not sure if I should've just made a new thread, but I have a similar problem with my Xai.

I left the buttons in the SS Xai driver programme untouched and I have set the mouse 4 (side button) in the XMBC do be "Simulated keys (during)[o]" (I want to hold down mouse 4 for it to type the letter o as it would on the keyboard). The current setup does not seem to be working, even though the buttons light up orange when I press them in XMBC

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[phil]

Not working how... I the button lights up in the setup window then that would suggest XMBC is getting the message. So how are you checking the simulated key? The easiest is by using notpad...

Some games do not like simulated keys of any sort (especially online ones) so first lets make sure we can get it working in a normal windows app...

Let me know what you haver tried so far and maybe I can suggest some tactics/tests. Debug logging might be useful if it does not work even in notepad.... Turn that on in advanced settings, and then you can snip the relevant section and paste it into a code block in this thread if you like.

Thanks,
Phil

[Lovvi]

Ok, so I got the "hold" button working, but it stutters (holding down the letter, for example O, on the keyboard is typed much faster) so I need to get it working a bit faster

[phil]

Do you want it to repeat while its held down (thats a different option to during)?
You should have plenty of control over the repeat speed using the simkeys dialog when you select "Repeatedly....".

If not, then what do you mean? "During" does not or should not repeat.

Thanks,
Phil

[Lovvi]

Well, I'm trying to use Mumble and have the push-to-talk button be the letter "O". That's why I need to get it working properly.

Now I set it to pressed&released mode, which types a lot faster in the notepad, but doesn't work as a PTT button. All I want is it to be the same as if I was holding the O on the keyboard.

[phil]

OK, yes for PTT you will be needing during... But I don't understand what you mean by lag then... Are you saying between pressing the button and the key showing up there is a delay? That sounds a little odd because XMBC itself shouldn't be introducing any delays - I don't notice such a delay here using during mode.

I wonder if there is some issue between the mouse driver and xmbc. The debug log has lots of timing information so you should be able to see when XMBC receives the button press and sends the simulated key, down to millisecond timing - its worth a look!

Thanks,
Phil

[Lovvi]

I'll try to explain as best as I can.

When I set it to "during", the icon that shows you if you are talking or not start flashing, because the way it types out the letter "O" (for example, in the notepad) isn't as fast than pressing the "O" on the keyboard (types out faster in the notepad).

So basically others hear me stutter, because for them I keep clicking the PTT button fast.

[phil]

OK but thats does not make sense...
When set to during, when you press the button, it sends a key down and when you release the buttom it sends a key up. So while you hold the button, nothing changes - the key is down.... So why would the icon flash, unless you are repeatidly pressing the button?

Sorry if Ive missed something but this has me completely stumped.

[Etaoin]

I use a Xai myself as well, and do not encounter any problems.

From skimming through the thread, I gather you're binding to the tilt wheel key instead of the sidebutton. This isn't possible because of how the system treats those keys. Because of this, the only sidebuttons that can simulate a held key are the mouse 4 and 5 buttons. The Xai configuration program allows you to set what each button does, so I switched the locations of the tilt and sidebuttons to suit my preference.

I believe that being able to hold down tilt keys are a planned feature though, but it might not be coming any time soon.