Mouse pointer suddenly jumps

x64 Replacement/Alternative to Microsoft's IntelliMouse application.
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4c3T
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Mouse pointer suddenly jumps

Post by 4c3T »

XMBC Version: Latest & previous ones
Windows Version: 7, 10 Pro/Enterprise
Mouse Information (brand/model): Generic Deltaco Gaming 5-button GAM-019, Rev. 1
Relevant Computer Information (CPU, RAM etc): Various (Different computers)
Did the problem occur after an upgrade of XMBC? (If so, from what version?): Same
Did the problem occur after a Windows update/upgrade? (If so, from what version?): Indifferent, hard to tell with update in Win 10.
How long have you used XMBC?: Some 4 years now
What language and keyboard layout do you use in Windows?: Swedish

Clear description of the problem - try and include as much information as possible, including what button and mappings you are having problems with (if applicable).:At times the mouse pointer just instantly jumps. Not very far, but is very irritating if playing a game and one easily gets disorientated, especially if in a high tension moment. Like when shooting a character, and suddenly shooting nothing but air.
This happens intermittently and does not seem to occur at any specific work load or task. I should also mention that I have multiple monitors on my main computer, but I have experienced this on my other PCs. Should mention that I also have an USB-switch (Aten US-421, 4-ports with some embedded signal indicator and software for eg. automatic switching of printers are connected to it, currently not used/installed), and on that a 7-port USB-hub.

I'm quite experienced with computers and I've run everything from DOS 3 to Windows 10 (Not 11 yet as my POS computer don't have TPM and I don't want to circumvent it and lose updates and stuff), and I've had many computers over the years, so I know my way around for the most part.

Anyway, I get the feeling that this may be due to X-mouse in some way and some glitch in Windows (as MS constantly are meddling with their updates and add new crap that runs all over the place, doing <deity> knows what).
Could be the USB-switch, but I used to run my soundcard (external USB) through it, and it was sensitive to interruptions* so I would've noticed it there I think.
My newer PC didn't have these interference, but that sound card is now directly connected to another port on that PC.

Currently I have 3 devices on that hub. Mouse, keyboard (Logitech G15 with LCD) and a Samsung laser printer.

I don't think it's the mouse that does this. I don't feel like it does. Granted, it's optical like pretty much all mice today are, and the sensor's clean with no dust or debris lodged in the cavity and it would take pretty much to miss-align the prism inside of it, and at which point I'd noticed strange behaviors I recon.
I've had this mouse for the better part of 2½-3 years now, and this problem arose about maybe 9 months ago.

It just entered my mind to ask if this could be a common event, or if it just happen to be my mouse that's causing this.

Naturally I should've tried with another mouse, but I currently don't have a proper mouse (This is why I bought this) that I could try with. All I have around are 3-button ones and I can't use those. It'd drive me in-freaki'n-sane not having 5-buttons.
I do have another, but I modified that with an Arduino since it had contact bounce issues, but it has a bad scroll which jumps back & forth so same there with the sanity of using that one.

So, thought I'd start here to check, as I wrote above, if this is a common-ish occurrence, or if I need to buy myself another mouse.
Sorry for the lengthy post. :roll:

*= I used to have a Dell PowerEdge 1950 mk. 2 server as my main computer for a long time, and it has a insane USB structure with tons of USB hubs connected to a lot of things, yet only 4 ports in total, and it caused interference or rather noise on that USB sound card, but seeing as how the server had USB-extender I had little choice since it didn't have enough slots and the fact that it sounded like an jumbo jet, it had to do.
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phil
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Re: Mouse pointer suddenly jumps

Post by phil »

Hi, I cant answer for others, but its not something that I've noticed (not to say its not happening but I think I'd notice things like that).
It is quite possible, especially under high CPU load that the mouse hook that XMBC uses may not be scheduled in time to handle it - maybe that's what is going on. I guess you have disabled XMBC to see if it continues to jump or not??

Try setting the process/thread priority to realtime (in advanced settings) if it is not already (I cant remember what the default is, but I always use Realtime) - that will tell Windows to schedule XMBC as quickly as possible in preference to other applications (XMBC itself is very light weight so not a problem generally).

You say various computers - but are they all using the same mouse / USB hub? I don't suppose they are all the same brand CPU etc (for example, there are some known USB issues causing glitches on AMD Zen3 with old(er) AGESA firmware versions) - OK I'm kind'a stabbing in the dark here (and I have a 5900x and never had such problems even with the original AGESA that supposedly had USB problems!

Another thing to check - in advanced settings, do you have the "Disable inactivity timer...." turned on - because that will intentionally jiggle the mouse movement programmatically to prevent Windows from sleeping (although I don't think it actually does properly stop sleep these days).

Other than that, XMBC shouldn't be "injecting" any random movements movement messages should not be intercepted (unless you have told XMBC to lock an axis etc. which would be obvious).

I'm tempted to wait a bit and see if anyone else has anything interesting to add - if there is a theme, its definitely worth looking into - but its going to be tricky to find this sort of issue (if indeed it is an XMBC issue) without clear steps to reproduce it (and be able to reproduce it on my own systems so I can try and see whats going on).

Regards,
Phil
--[ Phil ]--
--[ Administrator & XMBC Author ]--
Logitech G9/G604/M720/MX518, Microsoft Intellimouse, Trust 16341 BT Mouse
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4c3T
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Re: Mouse pointer suddenly jumps

Post by 4c3T »

Didn't occur to me to disable the software... Geez, I'm wondering if the gray hairs are growing inwards to my brain...

"Disable inactivity timer...." however is not checked, and never has been.

With various computers I mean 2 laptops(Intel Core2Duo) my old server (Dual Xeon QuadCore), a desktop PC (Intel Core2Duo) and my main PC (Intel i5), so yes, all Intel.


I'm going to try that process priority first to see if that does anything. If it doesn't I'll kill the software to see if that does anything. That should tell me something.

Would be a pity if it's the mouse. I really like it 'cos it has a pretty good quality scroll wheel which I believe is optical, but most interesting is that it still has that ticking-feel when scrolling and not notch-less or how to describe it. I'd hate to waste money on some fancy over-priced gaming mouse only to get a broken scroll within a few months. Also, I think 40-100 bucks is too much for a mouse, especially the latter.
Some would argue that you get what you pay for, which may be true at some points, but I have some reservations and I hate to pay bloated prices just for a brand and, yuck, plastic crap. Hard to avoid the latter, but I rather pay for cheap plastic than the more expensive one.

Anyone knows any mouse actually worth paying for that has magnets instead of some metal against plastic like most mice has, for the scroll wheel I mean (Which means it wears out in time)? I'm talking like the feel like stepping motors has with precise steps. :shock:
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FeodoR
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Re: Mouse pointer suddenly jumps

Post by FeodoR »

What underlying surface do you have? I mean, some kind of a mouse pad or something of that kind? Try to change surface and clean mouse bottom. Seems quite strange, but I've spent days on getting that answer for my mouse. Sometimes sensor on your mouse get strange errors and then the behavoir is very similar to yours and is caused not by a software but a hardware error. Cleaning can really solve it.

As for me, I found Logitech M500 as my favourite device, with two-type scroll and ergonomic. Very precise and, yes, with some solid clicky-scroll if I could understand you properly. :)
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4c3T
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Re: Mouse pointer suddenly jumps

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FeodoR wrote: Sat Nov 06, 2021 4:09 pm What underlying surface do you have? I mean, some kind of a mouse pad or something of that kind? Try to change surface and clean mouse bottom. Seems quite strange, but I've spent days on getting that answer for my mouse. Sometimes sensor on your mouse get strange errors and then the behavoir is very similar to yours and is caused not by a software but a hardware error. Cleaning can really solve it.

As for me, I found Logitech M500 as my favourite device, with two-type scroll and ergonomic. Very precise and, yes, with some solid clicky-scroll if I could understand you properly. :)
I have one of those old fashion fabric mouse mats with a thin foam rubber underneath.
I must say that after changing the priority it would seem that the jumping seem to have stopped, but I'm not sure of it yet.

I should also point out that I do clean it every now and then, and coincidentally I actually did that today, but if this jumping occurs again I'll make a note of it.
It was quite dirty this time though, and I scraped it gently first, then I saturated it with a detergent, then I doused it with alcohol before rubbing it with a microfiber cloth. Don't think this was the cause of it considering that I've previously used this mouse directly on the table which is stained brown wood with uneven surface (Wood grains are quite visible) and lacquered. It worked flawlessly (even with my cheap-o-mice that I have that I bought off Ali Express for no more than maybe 2-3 bucks, and a couple of other ones), if not very uncomfortable, hence the mat.

Anyways, I'll post updates if and when it occurs again.

I'm looking for any mouse that actually has magnets instead of a tiny ball bearing ball that rolls into plastic grooves like many do, others have a little either spring or metal with a notch that will do the same which causes that clicking sound/feel when you scroll.

A magnet would give a very distinctive haptic feeling as it would almost slide into position by itself when over-reached it's peak, or at least with a small nudge. I think the feel would be different than other methods (like with the ball bearing balls, springs & such). As I wrote, stepping motors have pretty much exactly this feel, although a bit too many steps/revolution, as a DC-motor would have too few yet the principle is exactly the same, only fewer coils.

I wrote a letter to Logitech with this suggestion, but it's very unlikely that they'll make a such mouse. Probably because the person that received it was schmuck (usually the case), or that they don't either feel the need to develop such a device, or because the scroll would probably outlive the mouse's other functions perhaps. Could be a matter of cost too, who knows. Would be far greater than any other method for this I think.

Then it could also had been a mouse with two or more optical sensors that ran in parallel to increase accuracy. I did a test with two mice side-by-side (In one hand. Yes, small mice!), and each movement was dead-on accurate as far as I could tell, the little I tested it.

It could be a success, or the opposite. It's all about marketing and price range I suppose.
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4c3T
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Re: Mouse pointer suddenly jumps

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Ok, so an update, as some time has passed since last post.

I've cleaned my mouse's external optics with a q-tip and also changed mouse mat. After cleaning it I still experienced some jumps, and after the new mat it's basically stopped but still occurs every now and then. Each action I took led to less frequent skips.

I suspect that it may be my mouse that's glitchy. To top that off, the left mouse button started to glitch a little too, so I'm looking to get another one soon. Too bad. I really liked this one. Cheap and feels quite good, and also good quality scroll wheel which have lasted way longer than I expected it would. It also have some rather nice RGB lighting.

I haven't opened it up yet but I'm going to. I never throw away electronics unless it's absolutely non-fixable. Also helps to have it as a hobby fixing electronics. This one's a keeper for sure. Just need to de-solder the bad switch and get a new one, and perhaps look at the alignment of the optics. Probably some dust that makes that jumping or something slightly out of alignment.

But I think I'll get another mouse soon. Nice with new stuff for a change. :D
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Re: Mouse pointer suddenly jumps

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Yes, you should at least be able to fix the buttons - I've replaced the micro switches in my Logitech G9 several times now (different buttons so far) (The mouse wasn't so cheap but I haven't been able to find anything more modern that has quite the same good feel so it was well worth fixing - and like you hobby electronics (and software :)) is kind'a my thing). Maybe the same applied to the optics, although it it was a cheap mouse, I get the feeling that replacing that will not be so cost effective!
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Logitech G9/G604/M720/MX518, Microsoft Intellimouse, Trust 16341 BT Mouse
Windows 10 x64, AMD Ryzen 5900x, MSI x570 Tomahawk, 32GB DDR4,
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Re: Mouse pointer suddenly jumps

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Just opened up the sucker. As I suspected there were standard Omron micro switches in it, but as I haven't actually though much of if for all these years and I've had similar mice, but what's the difference between those with a red top vs. those with white?
I couldn't feel any difference between them. My best guess would be that the red ones are more durable in some way, but what's the point in that case seeing as how the side buttons (also white) are just as much used, if not even more, and with more force at times seeing as how the thumb being the strongest finger and all. That would mean that 4 out of 7 switches should be made with red switches so no point of just having these two, unless it's just to make them cheap (as I would imagine they must be more expensive, which makes me question the quality of the white ones as to what differs in the manufacturing process).

Any ideas to why they do this..?

Otherwise, I have yet to discover if the jumping still occurs since I just put it back together and went on here, not more than 10 minutes ago at the moment of writing this.

Side note: Strangest thing ever happened when I added the images. They disappeared from my drive for some reason after uploading them. Never ever seen that happen before! I also use this forum and I can't say that I've seen anything that would indicate removal of files after upload, which wouldn't or shouldn't even exist in the first place...
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Re: Mouse pointer suddenly jumps

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I don't know if there is any relevance to the colour - maybe, but equally, maybe not! I guess you would need to find the actual part numbers and look it up?!

As for uploading photos - that's never happened to me (and I upload quite a lot of screenshots)... I can only image it must have been the browser itself doing that if they got removed from the local machine?!
--[ Phil ]--
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Logitech G9/G604/M720/MX518, Microsoft Intellimouse, Trust 16341 BT Mouse
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Re: Mouse pointer suddenly jumps

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Yeah. Well, that's a later issue. If it gets any worse I'll just swap the switches as I don't have any on hand, or I just might have some other mouse that I can snag one from.
I recon it'll last a while longer. Easy enough to fix.

As for the upload issue. Found the "problem", Windows didn't refresh. Never seen that before. Usually it does. Bah... No matter, maybe a week or two away from a reinstall of Windows since I'm getting myself a new boot drive. I have a few kinks here & there that would be needing a reinstall.
How fun it'd be if you could afford to buy a completely brand new computer, then rig the old one's keyboard's each key to a small explosive inside the chassis and then just blow the S@#! to bits, one small section at a time. I'd love to pull a Mozart master piece on that keyboard... :lol:
The more, the merrier, but not with people. Those we can do with less of. Save Earth, stop procreating :!:
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FeodoR
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Re: Mouse pointer suddenly jumps

Post by FeodoR »

4c3T wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:09 am Just opened up the sucker. As I suspected there were standard Omron micro switches in it, but as I haven't actually though much of if for all these years and I've had similar mice, but what's the difference between those with a red top vs. those with white?
I don't think that there is any difference in that microswitches except the button color. I'm nearly sure that they all have one part number hence they are identically the same, but, probably do have different production dates (and the plastic supplier posts a red ABS :-) ). Then they got to factory in different reels and were feeded to PCB…

Look, thay can be in many colors... Even case. :D As I do not know their part number I've just googled for «HUANO»…
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4c3T
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Re: Mouse pointer suddenly jumps

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Yeah, I'll look into it.
Does seem strange that they'd sort these differently. I could understand if they'd differed on the different PCBs (Mainboard and side-button PCB) as they're separate, but it makes little sense that the pick & placer machine would have two different colors unless there was a reason (and endurance would certainly account for that considering that they're the most clicked buttons).
That they'd have separate reels for each button makes sense as they'd be depleted sooner otherwise, and also for greater speed, depending on the assembly machine if it can pick up multiple components at once.

No matter. These can be found pretty much on whichever site that sells electronic parts, so no biggie. I think I'll attempt to open it up and clean it though, otherwise I'll just buy a few.

Edit:
Btw, since I opened it up for those photos, it seems that the left button stopped glitching, so something might have shifted slightly.
Still having those annoying mouse jumps though every now and then, so something's up with the optics... I'll be getting a new mouse sometime in the near future.
First things first though: Just received a couple (they were cheap!) PCIe NVMe M.2. adapters, and yesterday I ordered a 500 GB M.2. SSD, which means that I'll re-install Windows, and maybe that'll fix any glitches..? Who knows. After all, sometimes hardware problems can be software problems, and Windows isn't exactly known for being a rational OS from time to time as slightest little error can make such a huge difference in functionality. Even if you have two identical computers right next to each other, the outcome can differ something fierce.
The more, the merrier, but not with people. Those we can do with less of. Save Earth, stop procreating :!:
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