X-Mouse lagging in VR?

x64 Replacement/Alternative to Microsoft's IntelliMouse application.
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Zash
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Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2014 11:38 am

X-Mouse lagging in VR?

Post by Zash »

XMBC Version: 2.19.2
Windows Version: win10
Mouse Information (brand/model): Logitech G502 Hero / Lightspeed, probably most/all mice
Relevant Computer Information (CPU, RAM etc): 9900K; 32GB 4000mhz
Did the problem occur after an upgrade of XMBC? (If so, from what version?): no
Did the problem occur after a Windows update/upgrade? (If so, from what version?): no
How long have you used XMBC?: >5 years
What language and keyboard layout do you use in Windows?: English / UK

Clear description of the problem - try and include as much information as possible, including what button and mappings you are having problems with (if applicable).:

With Windows Mixed Reality (microsoft's VR application) running, which is crucial to be able to run many VR headsets, the mouse becomes laggy. More specifically, slow movements are not registered. Fast movements work, however the movement ratio is not 1:1 - it's like the movement is being quickly decelerated. It's like those old x-box PC ports which used to crudely emulate controller thumbstick input from a PC mouse.

There seems to be some kind of conflict with WMR and X-Mouse's mouse capture - I can only guess.

Sometimes both X and Y axes are affected. sometimes both. Other times, one axis is more affected than the other.

All applications become affected in VR, e.g. Virtual Desktop, SteamVR Desktop, WMR Desktop, VorpX etc. RAW input in games is unaffected, so gun aiming etc remains fine, but game menus and virtual Windows desktop is problematic.

Shutting down x-mouse instantly fixes the problem.

Shutting all VR programs (including WMR, but not x-mouse) and then restarting VR sometimes fixes the problem - other times, although the problem exists, it's small enough to be ignored. It just seems to be luck.

It may have something to do with x-mouse's "override speed" option (which is very useful btw - thank you for this!) - I use this between games constantly. Changing mouse DPI settings from mouse application does not affect the issue.

I appreciate that you probably do not have a WMR VR headset to test this with... happy to try suggestions - I am not averse to registry editing / hex editing / hardware soldering etc.

Thanks for your time!

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phil
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Posts: 6857
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: X-Mouse lagging in VR?

Post by phil »

I do have a VR headset (Oculus Quest) and Ive never noticed any problems myself when linked up to the PC (and as that uses USB, Id expect more problems because of the amount of data transferred across the USB bus) - but I must admit I don't use it all that often. Mostly just for Flightsim 2020 and HL Alex but of course neither of those games really use the mouse much while playing so maybe Ive just not seen the problem.

The override speed only changes the windows mouse speed setting (on the fly) so I doubt that has any particular impact. And off the top of my head I cant think of any clear and obvious reason there would be a conflict.... I guess I will have to try and reproduce this myself - but finding some time and getting all that out and setup will take me a while!

Something to try - instead of shutting down XMBC, can you disable/re-enable it and see if that makes any difference (you can setup global hotkeys to do this with a key combo to make it easier to try if need be).
--[ Phil ]--
--[ Administrator & XMBC Author ]--
Logitech G9, Logitech MX518, Microsoft Intellimouse, Trust 16341 BT Mouse
Windows 10 x64, AMD Ryzen 5900x, MSI x570 Tomahawk, 32GB DDR4,
nVidia RTX 2070s, Evo 970 1Tb NVME, 2x2TB WD Black (RAID1)

Zash
New User
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2014 11:38 am

Re: X-Mouse lagging in VR?

Post by Zash »

You're a gentleman Phil - no rush - I guess you have your plate full.

To clarify, this was not an issue with my Oculus Rift which uses the Oculus software. This only seems to be an issue with my Reverb G2 which uses the Windows Media Reality software.

I tried disabling/enabling x-mouse, unfortunately it didn't help.

BTW, MS Flight Simulator 2020 in VR is pretty amazing, if you ever want to give it a try. Also VR modded games such as Subnautica and Outer Wilds.

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phil
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Re: X-Mouse lagging in VR?

Post by phil »

Zash wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:54 pm
You're a gentleman Phil - no rush - I guess you have your plate full.
Yeh pretty full - although today I got a covid 19 positive test so I may be out of action for a bit (which ironically may give me a bit of time for XMBC - if I continue to feel well as I do right now - fingers crossed!)

I guess if its not an issue with oculus rift, I probably wont be able to reproduce t on my quest either :(. So Im not really sure if there will be anything I can do. One thing you could try....

In Settings, Advanced Settings, what is the CPU priority set to? If its below realtime, try setting it to realtime and see it it makes any difference. Maybe the CPU is being overloaded and thus it will take more time to schedule XMBC to handle the mouse messages (a disadvantage of running in user mode using mouse hooks, rather than as a driver in kernel mode).
Zash wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:54 pm
BTW, MS Flight Simulator 2020 in VR is pretty amazing, if you ever want to give it a try.
I know - as I said, thats all I have really used it for :)
Still a bit laggy for me (not the mouse, the gfx) as I only have a 2070 Super - and buying a new card is a) impossible and b) far too expensive right now lol. To be fair, I haven't tried it with the latest updates which may help.
--[ Phil ]--
--[ Administrator & XMBC Author ]--
Logitech G9, Logitech MX518, Microsoft Intellimouse, Trust 16341 BT Mouse
Windows 10 x64, AMD Ryzen 5900x, MSI x570 Tomahawk, 32GB DDR4,
nVidia RTX 2070s, Evo 970 1Tb NVME, 2x2TB WD Black (RAID1)

Zash
New User
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2014 11:38 am

Re: X-Mouse lagging in VR?

Post by Zash »

Thanks for the insights Phil, I hope you feel OK.

When you said "Flightsim 2020" I thought there was a game called exactly that - I didn't realise you were talking literally about Flight Simulator 2020 - doh!

1.a.
I think Frame Interpolation will be very helpful to your 2070 Super! Please download the OpenXR developer tools from the Windows Store and enable Motion Reprojection. This will enable up to 3 additional motion-smoothed frames to be interpolated, so you can play a game that runs at 23fps, - at 90fps. That's 300% performance increase for 'free'! There are some interpolation artefacts around hud/crosshair elements sometimes in some games, but in my humble opinion, it works very well, and certainly a huge leap up from asynchronous warp and old reprojection tech which used fake frames, since it literally generates new in-between frames from motion vectors.

Image

b.
In Alyx, or any game which uses OpenVR (as opposed to the new OpenXR standard), Oculus headsets can't use the Valve's Motion Smoothing (motion reprojection) if I recall correctly - Oculus just uses some cheap form of the old standard reprojection. However, there is an FSR injector which enables you to use DLSS-like upsampling to double your FPS. Certainly, using the medium preset, I have gained immense performance at the slight cost of image quality: https://github.com/fholger/openvr_fsr

What is FSR?:https://www.amd.com/en/technologies/rad ... resolution

Flight Simulator, using OpenXR, is not compatible with the OpenVR FSR injector... Hopefully there shall be an OpenXR FSR injector soon.

c.
With VorpX, which does a great job of converting normal flat games to VR, you are able to natively use OpenXR AND FSR simultaneously, as long as your headset supports it.

2.
Your mind is working brilliantly trying to pinpoint what might be causing the issue - My apologies however, I have not clarified what I mean by "lag". BTW, the priority is set to "High".

Please let me attempt to explain again - There is no time lag, nor any "lag" as such, with the mouse cursor. What is happening is that if I move the mouse quite slowly, the cursor will not move. If I move the mouse faster, the cursor will move at slow speed. If I move the mouse very fast, the cursor will move quite fast. Sometimes both X-Y axes are affected. Sometimes only one axis is affected. When only one -axis is affected, the effect is like mouse angle snapping: https://www.bestsettings.com/library/wh ... -snapping/

The problem only happens when I start VR, and resets when I exit VR. Restarting VR re-sets a random 'lag' intensity/affected axis, which is then permanent for the duration of the session until I either exit X-Mouse or the VR session.

I hope you get well soon; no need to worry about such trivial things which only affects a single user. :)

BTW, you might wish to add a dark-mode to x-mouse, as a lot of PC users use dark themes nowadays.

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