4th and 5th buttons chording deosn't work.

[Kukurykus]

I just bought wireless optical Logitech M545 (5 buttons and 4 dirrection roll).

So far I never had 4 and 5 buttons in my mouses. Now I tried to set chording (what I did before with other mice buttons) for 4 and 5 buttons where for ex. in Notepad profile:

when I hold 4th button then press 5th the simulated keystrokes gives a letter a
when I hold 5th button then press 4th the simulated keystrokes gives a letter b

that secdond case (5th with 4th) didn't work at all while first case (4th with 5th) I thought it doesn't work too and to be honest most often it doesn't. It works sometimes but some weird way. When I press a 4th button then press 5th nothing happens ("a" letter doesn't show in notepad). When I do it quickly or at once nothing happens too. When I press 2 buttons at same time and only in speciffic spots of them (where they are the closest of each other) if I'm lucky "a" letter shows up, other time (mostly) it doesn't work. It's very hard to find that specific place on two buttons at once to trigger "a" (or any other if set) letter, and still I'm not sure do I press them both at same time or one after second in few miliseconds range of time.

Like I mentioned 5th with 4th doesn't work even if I leave for 4th button with "no change - don't intercept" and chording with simulated keystrokes I set only for 5th buttop with 4th one.


Please tell me is it normal behaviour in case of 4th and 5th buttons or it's problem of Logitech M510, meaybe because their 4th and 5th buttons look like they are one long button devided in a half(?)

Can some one try it (or you Phil) with his mouse to see how it works? (btw. I just ordered another Logitech M510 this time - it's older model but on the photos 4th and 5th button are alike M545, so I can have the same problem)

[phil]

Works fine here with my logitech G9 and another wired MX something.
Did you install setpoint (or whatever they call their mouse software/driver combo these days)? If you did, you may find that interfering - it can change button mappings.

I don't know about that particular model, but on the G9, you can change the button behavior on the device itself (it has 3 profiles built in) and by changing profile, you can change the button configuration (even without setpoint installed). You have to use setpoint to configure each profile - and then you can uninstall setpoint again - Then again, if that were the case, I'd expect it not to work at all, and not to highlight the XMBC button dropdowns in orange!

Thanks,
Phil

[BriHecato]

Kukurykus - I just wonder how do you press simultaneously 4th and 5th button With one finger
I think current 2.15 beta has some problems with chording atarting with 5th button

[Kukurykus]

I did like you said and downloaded SetPoint, though in insalltaion note it said it's not meant for 4th and 5th buttons. Then it prompted me to install SetPoint for exact mice I use what I did too. I disabled 4th and 5th buttons but then they didn't work at all, so I changed back them to forward and back but it of course didn't make any change. Then I clicked restore to deafult settings and tried what I described in previous post.

Now in chording mode 4th button with simulated keystroke (for example letter "a") worked fine, so I didn't had to be lucky and click it till it show up, additionally in specific spots of both buttons, the more with beeing sure I do it simultaneously or not.

I tried the same with chording mode for 5th button with 4th. Unfortunally it still didn't work. I just mention that it didn't work before I downloaded SetPoint even that specific way it worked sometimes for 4th with 5th button in chording mode.

I found also another thing I'd like to ask you how it is working on your mouses:

If I set in chording mode 4th or 5th button with tilt (left or right) it does nothing

Summury (chording mode):

1) 4th with 5th worked sometimes clicking specific spots of both buttons
2) 5th with 4th doesn't work
3) 4th or 5th with left/right tilt doesn't work

After installing SetPoint for M545/M546 I only resolved problem from point 1.


When I'm home today evening I do the same with Logitech M510 which is very alike to M545 and tell you how it worked.

Ps. I ordered M510 as I was disappoined of too sensitive roll in M545. I mean I couldn't use it for just one move, as from time to time its construction was doing 2 moves (up or down). I found solution in XMBC that I could delay it if it happened but then another problem came up. It's so sensitive that even if I change that issue with XMBC then after using tilt (even very carefuly) still sooner or later there is bad luck roll went up or down (in other mices I used I had never this problem). Main difference between M545 and M510 for me is that odler M510 has still old kind of roll. I't not so fast and smooth so I can use it with XMBC as additional button with no risk it moves more than once or trigger some bound function when I does tilt.

Anyway this another thought is a theard for separate topic.

[Kukurykus]

BriHecato, It's easy with M545 as it is like one long button just devided in a half what makes two separate ones but still very close to each other. If that were two buttons with some space between then indeed I could have problem, however I use it with straigth thumb. If I want to use chording then I press first 4th button with closest to rest of hand my thumb and then with end part I press 5th button. At the beggining it's not so comfortable, but with short practise I found it's quite easy and I don't must think how to do it each time I need it. The same I do when I want to press 5th and then 4th, but here it's a little harder I think. First I press 5th button with end of thumb making free space under an arch of finger, so between a thumb and 4th button and then holding still 5th button I straighten my finger pushing this way 4th button

At the end working in Photoshop where I do many repetitive things it is very helpful.

[Kukurykus]

So I'm back home and tested M510.

Both 4th and 5th buttons in choring mode together with tilt (right or left) worked fine, so I believed 4th with 5th and 5th with 4th will work too. Well it didn't, however like in case of M545 when I was lucky 4th worked with 5th, and 5th with 4th didn't.

I did the same I did in my work with M545, I downloaded SetPoint, then installed the version for M510. Like that was with M545 4th button started working normally with 5th, but 5th with 4th still didn't (the same with M545). And another surprise! Now after I downloaded SetPoint tilt stopped working as second button with 4th or 5th button. So I guess if I tried 4th or 5th button with tilt in chording mode before I installed SetPoint it worked too on M545.

Conclusion is simple. Both M510 and M545 behave exactly same, so both have the same behaviour before installed SetPoint and both change their behaviour but still act like the same model after insallation of SetPoint.

I use Windows 10 with latest updates and XMBC Beta 2.15.2

Strange thing is that when I open XMBC to see "orange" colour on right buttons panel all is OKEY, even when I press any button, hold it and then press any another - both are orange! Please help as I don't have idea should I order another mouse, maybe not logitech this time, and will it work correctly finally...

Ps. I tried 4th with 5th and 5th with 4th in chording mode not only in notepad. I did it in default profile without simulated keys. Simply after set chording I set open browser. Only 4th with 5th opened it while 5th with 4th did nothing.

Edit:

I tried now chording 4th / 5th buttons with tilt (right / left) on M545 to see is it working before I install at my home computer SetPoint for this mouse and then reset setting to default. For some reason it works like I already did it, but I didn't. I did it only for M510 :/

[phil]

OK, I'm a bit confused...

Here its working fine on both my logitech mice, my trust Bluetooth mouse and a generic Bluetooth mouse.
Chording with button 4 then 5 is fine, as is button 5 then 4. I havnt tried with tilt yet...

[Kukurykus]

I must correct myself:

I was a little wrong as to orange colour in right panel each time I press specific button or specefic button with other one (M510 and M545). I noticed that:

1) when I press 4th button and then holding it I press 5th button, orange colour vanishes from 4th button and stay on 5th. I think it should stay on both buttons as long I press them, at least it's so when the second one is left/right/middle button. Am I right?

2) when I press 5th button and then holding it I press 4th button, the 5th button is still orange highlighted - there's no any signal from 4th button. Does that mean I can't do anything, just I have to search for other mice?

3) when I install SetPoint then behaviour from 2 above points is the same on XMBC right panel, but at least 4th works normally with 5th button.

4) when I install SetPoint XMBC right panel doesn't show 4th or 5th button works with right/left tilt. It also doesn't work outside of XMBC.

5) when I uninstall SetPoint then XMBC right panel shows that 4th or 5th button works with right/left button again, same is outside of XMBC. But again 4th works incorretly with 5th and 5th with 4th doesn't work at all.


I don't think these 2 mouse are broken, but why the heck they work this way? Can't I do anything else than order next mouse? If so can someone tell me what mouse will work as it should with XMBC (and wthat is important for me, there won't be "fast and smooth" roll, but a roll with "little steps behaviour"). To be honest I spent 5 hours looking for mouses. I found some, but either they are corded, or they got modern roll which is usless for my work. There are few hundrets models of mices of different brands and there are just a few with 5 buttons and 4 direction roll. How is it possible ?!

[Kukurykus]

I gave back Logitech M545 and Logitech M510 to shop where I bought them.

They both were similar, 5 buttons with 4 direction roll. Main difference was that newest model (M545) got fast roll while older M510 slow, what could imitate 2 additional buttons instead of scrolling when it was scrolled a little up or down.

In my opinion much better was M545. It was smaller and better fitted in hand. I liked it modern look too and it was lighter than M510). However better, it was usless for me because of that fast roll (which sound I liked very much though). Problem was the same in both mouses. Chording mode didn't work when I hold 5th button and then pressed 4th. Mainly this one thing made my decision to look for another mouse.

I bought 2 mouses again to use fully XMBC, so 5 buttons with 4 directions roll.

First one, a bigger "HP 5-Button Optical Comfort Mouse" I took more for a test, but also just in case I couldn't find any other mouse which let me use XMBC like I want. This is unneded corded mouse with interesting 4th and 5th buttons location. 4th is on left side while 5th on right. I tired to play with but it's completely not comfortable. It's much better when both are on a thumb side.

If you want to use all aspects of XMBC I don't recomend this one (and M510 and M545) also because of wrongly behaving tilt. When you want just a mouse perhaps you won't notice any difference, but when you want to use a left/right tilt as separate buttons remember that in this mouse when you use tilt is doesn't recognize single move, but starts repeadetly send long signal (so a little like a up/down roll). To be precise I mean that normally when you "press" till in the first instance it makes a "click", when you hold it, it make second click with no bounce effect. So making click it starts from that second phase in no time instead of making a short click and then continue after short break that It normlally should do.

Another, second one (4th in sum) mice I bought today is "rapoo 3920p" or "rapoo surfree". It's another not the newest mouse but complying with my needs. This one got additionally DPI switcher for fast and slow moving. But that's not important. It's very small mouse, and though I prefer so, it's not suitable for pressing chords in some configuration. For example a mouse cursor moves when you try to press some buttons, and it's not possible to keep your hand in one position all the time, but you have to adjut it to that button / roll moves you want to use (singly or together with other button / roll move). Only using tilt isn't so obvious too, it's not good doing it by middle part of finger as mouse is too short while roll not enough stood out.

I'm going to use this mouse untill I find something better, but at least this time I may be happy using XMBC in full (including chording). There are already 2 newest models of such 5 buttons (4 moves roll) of rapoo brand, something like middle and bigger size comparing to 3920p model I hope to try shortly.

This mouse isn't so bad after all, but I know there are better ones I won't focus on how to grab them with to give me the same result.


I noticed strange thing after I bought these 2 mices and I was sure that it will be much harder to buy a mouse than I thought. Like m545 and m510 weren't able to be used with hold 5th and then 4th button, these ones didn't give a signal in XMBC setup when I pressed regular right or left button, hold it and then make a tilt. An orange colour stayed on left / right button only. Fortunately all is fine since only XMBC doesn't show it. More interesting is that when I keep tilt and then press left or right button they both (tilt and button) are orange, but of course it's useless as chording is possible when firstly right or left are pressed, only then a tilt, not on the contrary.

Phil, do you think it's a bug in XMBC that left / right button hold with pressed then tilt doesn't show tilt in orange colour but when I try it in chording mode in some application it's working after all?

[phil]

Yes it is probably a bug - there is probably some code in there to ignore tilt if another button is held down - I'll take a look (the good news is that its the same for me here!)

[Kukurykus]

I bought next mouse and I'm glad I did it. This one is much better than that little Rapoo 3920p. It's a Hama Roma, the biggest model of this series. Like a middle model Hama Mirano for little or female hands it's wireless. Only the smallest model, Hama Torino is with cabel. There is a DPI switch (800/1600) under the mouse, with 800/1000/1200 option for the corded one. Probably middle model would be good for me too and there are 3 kind of colurs you can have it in. Anyway the most important is I don't need now change my hand position whenever I want to use some keys, especially in chording mode. There's no swich for fast scrolling, but personally for my work only slow (stepwise) roll satisfies myself. I recommend it also because its a little angle, so that right part of mouse is lower than the left part. It's somekind first step to vertical mouse, but what is amazing I didn't see in other mouses with such angle that the roll isn't upright, but sloped to the right noticably. The only hardness I met is when I try to use chord of left button with roll to the right. It's not easy untill you move your left mouse button finger to the left edge. I found also that it's easier to use 4th (especially 5th) button with left/right tilt, but unfortunatelly straining your hand (if you want your cursor been unmoved), as this combination shows that a roll (though individially is nice to use) gives a little resistance. Everything else is perfect, like I figured out now with a little practise I should forget fastly I had problems with some chords at the beggining. Pressing 4th with a 5th and vice versa is so obvious like this mouse was made for this kind of chords. There won't be problem for me if I stop searching for better mice. This one is enough good.

[phil]

Thanks for all the reviews - maybe the XMBC forums can become the place to go when trying to find th best mouse

Phil