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trackball scroll

Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 6:41 pm
by quartzz
XMBC Version:
Windows Version:
7 64 bit
Mouse Information (brand/model):
kensington orbit
Relevant Computer Information (CPU, RAM etc):
standard intel
Did the problem occur after an upgrade of XMBC? (If so, from what version?):
Did the problem occur after a Windows update/upgrade? (If so, from what version?):
How long have you used XMBC?:
< 24 hours
What language and keyboard layout do you use in Windows?:
Clear description of the problem - try and include as much information as possible, including what button and mappings you are having problems with (if applicable).:

so basically I have 3 devices: 2 mice, 1 trackball. all usb.

the mice are as standard, wheel scroll. I want to keep these as is

trackball is a recent purchase, the only reason I bought it is to use the ball as a page scroll (rather than pointer position). I just....'assumed' I would be able to do this. at the moment , obviously, I can't. some searches suggested x-mouse

can I use this s/w to set this up?


Re: trackball scroll

Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:49 pm
by phil
Whilst XMBC can be setup to change movement to scroll (when a button/hot key is held), XMBC can not identify different devices, so any change you make in XMBC will apply to all connected mice/track balls - so I don't think its going to work the way you want it I'm afraid.

Re: trackball scroll

Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:09 pm
by quartzz
ok would I set up to press a key for trackball scroll?

I probably won't be using the mouse when I scroll, so a ctrl-ball or something for scroll would probably work

I'd just want to add to this, I do use ctrl-click to open a link in a new window - so if I used ctrl+ball for scroll, I'd want to retain the ctrl+click mouse functionality

in fact caps-lock+ball for scroll also might work. that way, no key held-down for scroll

Re: trackball scroll

Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:13 pm
by phil
Ahhhh having just said you can use a hotkey - I realize that I'm wrong - when I went to look at writing how to do it :oops:
Right now, you can only set buttons to enable the "Change movement to scroll" functionality (like for example, while holing mouse button 4, it will change the mouse movement into scroll movement).

Apologies about that. I will have to look into adding the ability to do this with hotkeys/modifier keys but right now thats not possible.


Re: trackball scroll

Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:47 pm
by quartzz
k thanks

the website it's specifically for is instagram (which is a cluster *#*# of a website anyway - don't get me started)
but having trackball ball as scroll function would be handy

if poss while keeping other usb mouse functions (2 mice actually) unchanged

the actual details is I'm suspiciously sure enough that insta has some sort of throttling script, so if you scroll down a page that doesn't have a next page option (wtf insta?) too fast, it limits results. being able to rotate the ball slowly would be useful

Re: trackball scroll

Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:56 pm
by phil
Yeh I understand... Unfortunately XMBC is never going to be able to distinguish between devices, simply because it works with Windows mouse hooks - and they themselves do not give anything about the source of the message.

What you really need is something at the driver level for the trackball (only) to make this change - thats possible but I don't know of any off the shelf program to do it (and when I say possible, I mean technically - practically may be less so - not least because to make your own filter drivers, requires not only pretty involved coding skills, but also, to install/distribute such a package requires the driver to be signed - not something your hobbyist can do - not least because the signing certificates cost hundreds of dollars per year, but also they are only available to registered companies!

So while XMBC can do it (all be it with some pretty major modifications for the hotkey usage) - its never gong to be the optimal solution as it will apply to all pointer devices at once (the mice, the touchpads and the trackballs - basically anything that moves the pointer).

On top of that, to make this change to XMBC is not going to be super quick. I will add it to the todo list but 202 has been a tough year on us all and I havn't even had a chance to get to look at said todo list for about 8 months - so please be aware that its not something I can turn around in a moment and there is a ton of other things to look at too. Its defiantly worth a look around to see if there is anything else than can do it better/quicker!


Re: trackball scroll

Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:18 pm
by quartzz
totally understand. no problems. thanx for reading ;)

I'm currently waiting back to hear from kensington (who don't appear to have an email contact form) if they can do this can get win 7 to ignore [lack of] driver signing? (I think I've done it before). the beast that is win 10 I've not actually tried yet

I've just downloaded a thing from github called trackballscroll which I might try when I don't mind the poss. of a system freeze

Re: trackball scroll

Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:38 pm
by phil
Yes you can get around the driver signing - I think its still possible on Win 10 but its getting more and more difficult - and comes with other issues (like potential that any protected media may refuse to play etc. I haven't tried it since win 7 so I'm not 100% sure what breaks or not these days. Its certainly not something that could be distributed on mass though without being properly signed and thats where it gets real tricky.

I wish it were easier - I wish I could have the ability to sign drivers because perversely, I think it would be quite fun to make a filter driver (he says with no regard for the time and effort that may entail) that XMBC can make use of for things like this. I did play around with an open source driver that could be modified to do things like this (in test mode with no signature) - but as far as I can its never going to happen without me first setting up a publicly registered company (with all that that entails) and then spending a lot more money on certificates (the one I had to sign XMBC is about $40 a year - not a problem - but $400 a year would be). Then keeping that all up to date to keep on top of bugs and changes to the OS every year haha....

Keep me informed of your progress though - especially if you get a decent solution, and I will do me best to let you know if/when I get a chance to look into adding hotkey/modifier key support for the existing functionality in XMBC.

Re: trackball scroll

Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:57 pm
by quartzz
to name something I worked with in the past....around year 2000's I worked for a small-ish (100 employees?) OEM in the UK (where I am)

the guy in the room/lab next to me ran WHQL (WIKL) tests for the system's we were building for curry's and places like that. the WHQL test was literally just a stress test - a hardware/application version of 3D mark 2000. it opened lots of windows on the desktop, and ran lots of graphs at the same time and stuff like that for about an hour.

so we could put whql-approved stickers on them. we were building a few hardware combinations of mini towers (say 'a' and 'b')..... so he would run a successful WHQL test on system 'a', then the production floors boss would completely change the system for a diff base unit (system 'b')..... and use the whql success result of system 'a', and apply it to system 'b'.

I wouldn't say that company were cowboys. I did just type it though.

not that I would ever think M$ would ever invent a potentially useful and/or justifiable concept (driver signing), get their artist to do a nice graphic that would make everyone decide they wanted, and then charge companies lots of money for the privilege of using that graphic. yeah.....yeah I would

Re: trackball scroll

Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 1:00 am
by phil
I'm also in the UK but I guess thats fairly obvious from the domain name :wink:
I have in the past worked for a small UK company who have driver signing certificates, although I never really got involved the the driver development - and the company never bothered with WHQL as it was a very niche product for one or two customers to support ancient hardware connected to a modern PC. The drivers were built along with the hardware for a very specific purpose. It was handy having access to the certificates though (until a big US company took us over and we then had to be much more careful - I eventually managed to extract myself out of the corporate monster and now once again work for a <very> small software company doing a very similar job.

Re: trackball scroll

Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 1:20 am
by quartzz
I don't suppose when you left, along with some paperclips and a few reams of A4, you could pinch the certificates?

(I'm sure it doesn't work like that....the paperclips are probably security tagged?)

Re: trackball scroll

Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:48 am
by phil
I did have a copy but it expired 3 years ago (actually, before I left I think!) lol

Re: trackball scroll

Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 7:45 pm
by quartzz
-> I had my answer

Kensington got back to me, and said the orbit (£25) can't do this. apparently I have to spend £75 or so to get Kensington trackball page scroll.


I'm not having trackball page scroll. I'm not sure I can be bothered to do research to find out if any other manufacturers can do t/b scroll for under £30