Windows System Beep (audio) / IO latency

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BoseRoHS
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Windows System Beep (audio) / IO latency

Post by BoseRoHS » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:15 pm

I updated xmouse to the latest version (2.17) portable and noticed something very odd. The unfortunate thing is that this is going to be tricky to explain without any recording.

In short you may want to take a closer look at the newer version, it's causing IO issues (buffer overflow) and causing Windows (1709.16299.192) to trigger the SYSTEM BEEP.

I have a G502 with a scroll lock, which allows the scroll wheel to freely scroll or scroll at intervals. The issue is not specific to mouse scroll, but it's easier to diagnose this way, meaning the issue also occurs with L/R buttons ecetra. While XM is running in the background and opening any large webpage or explorer window (where possible to scroll very quickly) XM will throw a IO buffer overflow and force a SYSTEM BEEP and cause system instability.

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phil
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Re: Windows System Beep (audio) / IO latency

Post by phil » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:17 am

XMBC has always done this under high load and really fast scroll. Ive never seen it with any other button. And I don't know there is much I can do about it. If its worse in 2.17 then maybe I have added something inefficient but I haven't noticed it being any worse in the latest version.

What have you got you buttons mapped to? Can you send me your XMBCSettings.xml file (or save your profile and send it to me) so I can try your settings here to see if there is something in particular making it worse?

Thanks,
Phil
--[ Phil ]--
--[ Administrator & XMBC Author ]--
Logitech G9, Logitech MX518, Microsoft Intellimouse, Trust 16341 BT Mouse
Windows 10 x64, Intel i5-6600k, Asus 170-A, 16GB DDR4,
nVidia GeForce GTX 970, 2xEvo 850 (RAID 0), 2x2TB WD Black (RAID1)

BoseRoHS
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Re: Windows System Beep (audio) / IO latency

Post by BoseRoHS » Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:51 am

The issue never occurred in previous versions, even under heavy load. With this version (2.17) the issue occurs at anytime not just under heavy load.

I have nothing mapped to XMBC, until an application calls for it, but I've haven't had the need to use any application mapped to XMBC for several months.

I just removed XMBC from startup so the issue is gone. I'll try to recreate the issue and post a mp4/audio when time allows.

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phil
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Re: Windows System Beep (audio) / IO latency

Post by phil » Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:45 am

I know what it sounds like, don't worry about the MP3/4 - and it has always happened for me but only under high load (and maybe only in debug mode which is slower).

I'm running 2.17 here and at work and I and can't reproduce it with my logitech G9 and another Logitech mouse with a scroll lock button mouse in free scrolling mode. However, Killy has reported high CPU usage while scrolling (something I don't see here) - so maybe, as I suggested, its one of the global/advanced settings.

The best thing would be to export your whole profile then I can examine it and see if there is a particular global setting (that I'm not using) that is causing it. If that's too much trouble, I'll just have to stumble around in the dark looking at random things which quite frankly, I don't have the time to do right now :(.
--[ Phil ]--
--[ Administrator & XMBC Author ]--
Logitech G9, Logitech MX518, Microsoft Intellimouse, Trust 16341 BT Mouse
Windows 10 x64, Intel i5-6600k, Asus 170-A, 16GB DDR4,
nVidia GeForce GTX 970, 2xEvo 850 (RAID 0), 2x2TB WD Black (RAID1)

BoseRoHS
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Re: Windows System Beep (audio) / IO latency

Post by BoseRoHS » Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:21 pm

I created a random test profile and the issue still occurs quite aggressively in 2.17. The issue with 2.17 is that Windows will set off the system beep while just moving from application to application or clicking on the desktop... when XMBC is only setup to function within specific applications, and those applications are not running.

I downgraded to version 2.15 and the issue has become less apparent, so far.

I use Process Explorer and reports nothing out of the ordinary. Process monitor doesn't report anything either.

What is Killy? Perhaps I could download that and see what you're seeing.
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Killy
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Re: Windows System Beep (audio) / IO latency

Post by Killy » Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:37 pm

Killy is not a thing. Phil was referring to my recent thread: http://forums.highrez.co.uk/viewtopic.p ... 0a278aef5f
Logitech Trackman Marble, Logitech M570

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phil
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Re: Windows System Beep (audio) / IO latency

Post by phil » Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:25 pm

BoseRoHS wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:21 pm
I created a random test profile and the issue still occurs quite aggressively in 2.17. The issue with 2.17 is that Windows will set off the system beep while just moving from application to application or clicking on the desktop... when XMBC is only setup to function within specific applications, and those applications are not running.

I downgraded to version 2.15 and the issue has become less apparent, so far.

I use Process Explorer and reports nothing out of the ordinary. Process monitor doesn't report anything either.

What is Killy? Perhaps I could download that and see what you're seeing.
Unfortunately it still does not happen here with your profile. I can only assume something outside of XMBC is influencing it, although that does not make much sense if its better in earlier versions.

I've just noticed my Windows version is 1709 Build 16299.125 so I will go check for updates and try again.
EDIT: Windows says its up to date, so whats this 1709.16299.192 you speak of - is it an insider build?
EDIT2: My surface pro 2 has this version, but so far, I'm not able to reproduce on that either...

Thanks,
Phil
--[ Phil ]--
--[ Administrator & XMBC Author ]--
Logitech G9, Logitech MX518, Microsoft Intellimouse, Trust 16341 BT Mouse
Windows 10 x64, Intel i5-6600k, Asus 170-A, 16GB DDR4,
nVidia GeForce GTX 970, 2xEvo 850 (RAID 0), 2x2TB WD Black (RAID1)

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Re: Windows System Beep (audio) / IO latency

Post by phil » Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:57 pm

A little more progress on Killy's thread - the high CPU usage was not being caused by XMBC, but was causing problems in XMBC.
Can you see if your Internet Connection Service is stalling? Maybe use process monitor/explorer to see if any other process/service is taking a significant amount of CPU (like all of one core).

In Killy's case the ICS service was locking up the CPU (apparently a known issue with Windows 10 1709). After disabling the service, all problems went away.

The beeps you are getting, suggests IO latency - and while this can be caused by XMBC, it could well be because XMBC isn't getting a chance to respond in time because something else is locking it out. So its worth looking at that.

Out of interest, what process priority have you got XMBC set to (in the advanced settings tab) if its not realtime, try setting it to realtime - this will tell Windows to give more time to XMBC over other processes.

Thanks,
Phil
--[ Phil ]--
--[ Administrator & XMBC Author ]--
Logitech G9, Logitech MX518, Microsoft Intellimouse, Trust 16341 BT Mouse
Windows 10 x64, Intel i5-6600k, Asus 170-A, 16GB DDR4,
nVidia GeForce GTX 970, 2xEvo 850 (RAID 0), 2x2TB WD Black (RAID1)

BoseRoHS
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Re: Windows System Beep (audio) / IO latency

Post by BoseRoHS » Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:17 pm

phil wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:57 pm
A little more progress on Killy's thread - the high CPU usage was not being caused by XMBC, but was causing problems in XMBC.
Can you see if your Internet Connection Service is stalling? Maybe use process monitor/explorer to see if any other process/service is taking a significant amount of CPU (like all of one core).

In Killy's case the ICS service was locking up the CPU (apparently a known issue with Windows 10 1709). After disabling the service, all problems went away.

The beeps you are getting, suggests IO latency - and while this can be caused by XMBC, it could well be because XMBC isn't getting a chance to respond in time because something else is locking it out. So its worth looking at that.

Out of interest, what process priority have you got XMBC set to (in the advanced settings tab) if its not realtime, try setting it to realtime - this will tell Windows to give more time to XMBC over other processes.

Thanks,
Phil
I've checked processes , ran resource monitor , and file monitor , none of which display any events that that would cause an alarm. Though it [this system] was shutdown since July '17 to late December '17 and I had to install several updates and the FALL creators update, The system beeps began after updating to the FCU and other updates. I just ignored the issue up until this thread.

I do not use ICS. ICS has been an long standing issue in WIndows for a very long time. In any case Internet Connection Sharing service is [Disabled] on every system I own.

The XMBC process priority was one the things I checked. It was set to HIGH and I set it back to normal back on 02/09. The profile I attached will reflect that. As previously noted the issue hasn't been as aggressive, if anything un-noticeable.

I run XMBC in portable mode and off a secondary platter drive.

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phil
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Re: Windows System Beep (audio) / IO latency

Post by phil » Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:04 pm

Hi Again,

I noticed in your profile that your have "Enable profile switching on mouse move" disable in the advanced settings. This may be relevant, because with this disabled, XMBC checks the active process when the mouse button is clicked.... And to check the active process, it has to do more work, so I wonder if something in there is causing the delay/lag.

However, no matter how hard I try, I can not make my system beep - which means its going to be rather tricky to figure out what exactly is the problem. So I'm clutching at straws a little here... Can you try Turing on debug logging (in 2.17) and reproduce the IO beeps... Make a note of the time that the beeps occur (so I can try and and align them with the log entries) and then send me the log? Note: debug logging will turn itself off again next time XMBC starts.

Roughly what spec is your PC? (How many cores, what CPU etc.) Mine main PC is a 4 core skylake I5 but I have laptops and other devices of varying ages, none of which appear to be able to reproduce this problem, although I'm going to try again in portable mode just in case I missed something!

Thanks,
Phil
--[ Phil ]--
--[ Administrator & XMBC Author ]--
Logitech G9, Logitech MX518, Microsoft Intellimouse, Trust 16341 BT Mouse
Windows 10 x64, Intel i5-6600k, Asus 170-A, 16GB DDR4,
nVidia GeForce GTX 970, 2xEvo 850 (RAID 0), 2x2TB WD Black (RAID1)

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phil
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Re: Windows System Beep (audio) / IO latency

Post by phil » Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:21 pm

I don't suppose you have an XBox One controller connected to your PC do you? Ive just seen numerous posts on issues with mouse lag caused by the XInput driver (related to XBOX Controllers). Others are also reporting laggy mouse buttons causing beeps in Windows 10, (not mentioning the xbox controller https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comm ... d_beeping/

So it seems there are many other things that could be in play here (which would explain why some people have this problem and others (including myself) don't... The problem is narrowing it down and that's not going to be easy.

I can make XMBC cause input lag and beeps.... but that's by adding a significant delay in the button processing code (intentionally) this also lags the mouse cursor massively (does your mouse cursor lag when the beeps occur?. I'll await the log to see if there are any unintentional delays in your button processing.
--[ Phil ]--
--[ Administrator & XMBC Author ]--
Logitech G9, Logitech MX518, Microsoft Intellimouse, Trust 16341 BT Mouse
Windows 10 x64, Intel i5-6600k, Asus 170-A, 16GB DDR4,
nVidia GeForce GTX 970, 2xEvo 850 (RAID 0), 2x2TB WD Black (RAID1)

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phil
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Re: Windows System Beep (audio) / IO latency

Post by phil » Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:22 pm

Give 2.18 Beta 1 a try too, I have made some optimizations that may make a difference. While I'm not convinced it will make a difference, it certainly would be good to give it a try.

Thanks,
Phil
--[ Phil ]--
--[ Administrator & XMBC Author ]--
Logitech G9, Logitech MX518, Microsoft Intellimouse, Trust 16341 BT Mouse
Windows 10 x64, Intel i5-6600k, Asus 170-A, 16GB DDR4,
nVidia GeForce GTX 970, 2xEvo 850 (RAID 0), 2x2TB WD Black (RAID1)

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