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Can't start XMBC on WinXP 32bit

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Re: Can't start XMBC on WinXP 32bit

Post by injtsvetkov » Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:05 am

Well I have read somewhere that when creating a program in 'visual studio' (VS) you have to specify the older versions of VS which you want your software to be also able to work with (or something like that), but I'm sure you know that, so is it possible to have skipped some old versions?

On the other hand, when I installed the 'Visual C++ Redistributable for Visual Studio 2015' (13.1mb) there was no difference, so I wonder whether I have installed the right thing (does that file size look fair to you)?
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Re: Can't start XMBC on WinXP 32bit

Post by phil » Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:24 pm

Firstly, the vs run-time was a wild stab in the dark - they should not be needed as XMBC is statically linked (includes the run-time). The fact it made no difference is good!

Secondly, if I hadn't used the options for XP, it wouldn't work for me on XP!

I have now done a fresh install of XP with SP3 and then installed XMBC... Worked first time - no problem, so I'm not sure what else to suggest :(
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Re: Can't start XMBC on WinXP 32bit

Post by injtsvetkov » Fri Sep 09, 2016 1:48 am

Yeap, I suspected that it will work again on your side, that was what I was afraid of :?

I have a strange feeling that something could be missing/messed up on my PC, but would the installation complete at all if say some file is missing or something in the registry is messed up?

I went through the 'XMBC 2.13 Beta' topic trying to find some clues. As I see you wrote 're-worked the code significantly/optimized some of the code' a couple of times but I don't know if that could have caused the problem. And the primary suspect (as you suggested) is:
phil wrote:Here is 2.13 Beta 11.

Beta 11 is now using a new C++ run-time library (2015 instead of 2008). There shouldn't be any functional changes but I have optimized some of the code and fixed a few bugs found during the conversion to 2015. Because of this, the download size has reduced (nearly half for the full installer, as I no longer need to include the MS visual C++ redist as I have linked everything needed into the XMBC executable. Whilst there should be no detrimental affect, PLEASE tell me if you notice any problems with your simulated keystrokes or anything else!

If you have check for beta versions enabled, you should get notified of a new version and prompted to update in the next day or so. This is the most efficient method (bandwidth wise) as the updates are only a fraction of the size of the full install. Otherwise, you can get the full installation beta HERE. Note that this link will always get you the latest beta version!

Changes since v2.13 Beta 10:
  • #374 - Upgrade development environment to VS2015 and static link the run-times library.
There are no new translations in 2.13 beta 11
Any problems, PM me a copy of the log file (or post a snippet in a code block here).

Thanks,
Phil
Apparently there have been some other changes at that point (except the VS upgrade) so I hope you have copies of '2.13 beta 10' and '2.13 beta 11' so I can try them and confirm whether this is the point it sopped working.
Actually a cousin of mine has an old XP 32 bit PC so I will try there too but most probably it will be the same situation :(

These 3 questions are constantly bugging me and answering them will reveal the root of the problem :!:

1. Why the older versions work on my PC and the newer ones don't (given that they work on your VM) :?:
2. What could be the difference between my PC and your VM that is causing this behavior :?:
3. Why both the portable and the installed versions won't work (given that the installation completes without any problem) :?:

The only difference between my PC and your VM that I can think of is that your VM is hosted on a high-tech 64 bit hardware and maybe the new VS 2015 has some requirements that my old PC doesn't meet (wich is strange as VS 2015 is supposed to work on 32 bit machines).

Can you think of some other 32 bit software using VS 2015 which I could try and see if it will work :?:

Thanks for your help so far and sorry for the headache but I am determined to get to the bottom of this issue even if at the end it turns out that I won't be able to use the latest XMBC version on my old PC.

Greeings!
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Re: Can't start XMBC on WinXP 32bit

Post by phil » Fri Sep 09, 2016 9:21 am

injtsvetkov wrote: Apparently there have been some other changes at that point (except the VS upgrade) so I hope you have copies of '2.13 beta 10' and '2.13 beta 11' so I can try them and confirm whether this is the point it sopped working.
Actually a cousin of mine has an old XP 32 bit PC so I will try there too but most probably it will be the same situation :(

These 3 questions are constantly bugging me and answering them will reveal the root of the problem :!:

1. Why the older versions work on my PC and the newer ones don't (given that they work on your VM) :?:
2. What could be the difference between my PC and your VM that is causing this behavior :?:
3. Why both the portable and the installed versions won't work (given that the installation completes without any problem) :?:

The only difference between my PC and your VM that I can think of is that your VM is hosted on a high-tech 64 bit hardware and maybe the new VS 2015 has some requirements that my old PC doesn't meet (wich is strange as VS 2015 is supposed to work on 32 bit machines).

Can you think of some other 32 bit software using VS 2015 which I could try and see if it will work :?:
Three good questions. Its defiantly a good idea to try o your cousins PC. I think actually you might find it works fine there - but we wont know until tried. No one else has had problems with XP (although that could be because no one else still uses XP :)).

VM's don't generally work like that - it matters not what they are hosted on. As far as the software inside the VM, it does not know any different. I really don't think the VS2015 thing is relevant because if it was, it would be a consistent thing on XP everywhere!

I do have the old betas... Not sure they are online but I have them here. I will PM them to you.

Thanks
Phil
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Re: Can't start XMBC on WinXP 32bit

Post by injtsvetkov » Sun Sep 11, 2016 9:59 am

phil wrote:No one else has had problems with XP (although that could be because no one else still uses XP :)).
I'm afraid so :?. I was hoping that someone else would report something similar by now but ...

Unfortunately my cousin gave her PC to someone else a while ago so I don't have access to it :( but I'll try to find others. In fact, it might sound strange to you, but here in Bulgaria there are still a lot of old XP PCs but they don't know about XMBC (as I see I'm the only Bulgarian in the forum for now :?). It's understandable coz most probably these people are rather basic users (like in my previous work, I am sure that they are still using a couple of XP PCs) and they don't know/don't care about anything else except what's needed to do their usual work (e-mail, word/excel 2003 ...).

Any way I've tried '2.13 beta 10' and '2.13 beta 11' and confirmed that indeed this is the point break. Furthermore, I found a tool - 'Dependency Walker' which shows a difference between them. The working v2.13.b10 is missing MSVCR90.dll while the not working 2.13.b11 isn't looking for it (the tree is quite different). Here I've attached the app and the 2 report files .dwi so you could open them and see if you could confirm whether this is the problem and whether there is a workaround. Google says that MSVCR90.dll belongs to Microsoft® Visual Studio® 2005 so it seems that VS 2015 is now using something different, I hope you have a clue on what is going on :|

Thank you!
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Re: Can't start XMBC on WinXP 32bit

Post by phil » Sun Sep 11, 2016 12:37 pm

The old versions were built with visual studio 2008 and depended on the Microsoft Visual C Runtime (MSVCR90/MSVCP90) MSVCR90 is for 2008 not 2005 (that would be MSVCR80). VS2015 would be MSVCR140 but I changed XMBC to statically link to the runtime components which means everything required is included in the XMBC DLLs themselves and you don't need to install it separately like you did before when it was built with 2008!

That is the reason the dependency tree is very different between the two versions - it does not have so many dependencies on 3rd party files so it makes even less sense that its not working really. XMBC uses.

Until you can try on another XP system, there is very little else I can say.
I have now tried it on 3 XP systems (all virtual but that should be irrelevant) and it works on them all. It also works on 2003 server which is the same subsystem as XP (and I tried it on a non-virtual one of those!). So I really do think its something specific to your installation. It is interesting that the old version that depends on the 2008 run-times works but it does not explain why the 2015 based version does not work. VS2015 supports XP. I have checked and the XMBC code is set to compile against Visual Studio 2015 - Windows XP (v140_xp) so all should be good (and is in all cases I have tried).

At this stage I'm not going back to older development environments (I'd rather drop XP support that do that!! :)).

Thanks
Phil
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Re: Can't start XMBC on WinXP 32bit

Post by phil » Sun Sep 11, 2016 12:51 pm

Ive got an old DELL laptop that I'm going to fire up and install XP on (it has 7 on it right now) just to rule out the VM!
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Re: Can't start XMBC on WinXP 32bit

Post by injtsvetkov » Sun Sep 11, 2016 1:03 pm

Don't do that yet. I'm going to get another old PC from a firend these days. And I will install fresh 32 bit XP.
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Re: Can't start XMBC on WinXP 32bit

Post by phil » Sun Sep 11, 2016 1:22 pm

Already doing it :)
Setup almost complete (its been a while since I had to install something from physical CD media!!!)
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Re: Can't start XMBC on WinXP 32bit

Post by injtsvetkov » Sun Sep 11, 2016 2:05 pm

Probably I will get it working on a fresh XP (at least I hope so :?), but I was trying to find out what went wrong on the current systems so I could prevent it from happening again in the future, or even better to know how to fix it if it happens :)

Of course it would be ridiculous to go back to older environment because of this :D, after all XP is already dead!

And thanks for the explanation about 'static linking'! I've read here and there about it but it still is somewhat messy to me and it's hard for me to come up with decent ideas about how and what to test so I could find some clues about the problem. After I try on a fresh 32 bit XP PC and if still not working the next step would be to setup a VM myself and if it works there - to further investigate the differences. It's so annoying that nothing happens at all, it just drives me mad. If only I could get some reaction or an error message ...


One more question: If you have static linked some .dll file but it is already present on my PC prior to installation, would the installer replace it or it will leave the one that is already present?
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Re: Can't start XMBC on WinXP 32bit

Post by phil » Sun Sep 11, 2016 2:19 pm

If you statically link the run-time DLL's it does not use the ones on your system - the run-time is included in the XMBC exe and DLL files so it does not need to go get it elsewhere (hence static!).

By the way, XP setup complete (its an old laptop I haven't used for about 6 years so no problem wiping it).
Guess what - XMBC works fine (which is good but it does not help explain whats wrong on your system). At least it rules out the VM argument :).

Thanks
Phil
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Re: Can't start XMBC on WinXP 32bit

Post by injtsvetkov » Sun Sep 11, 2016 2:55 pm

Thanks a lot Phil!

Now from what you are saying I have to assume that the old versions have gotten something from elsewhere and that is how they worked. As 'Dependency Walker' shows that v2.13.10 is missing MSVCR90, could it be possible that is falls back to MSVCR71 (which is present in my system32 folder) in order to work, or this has no logic?

A got a new clue - when I try to start XMBC, the .exe shows up in task manager just for a second and then disappears.
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Re: Can't start XMBC on WinXP 32bit

Post by phil » Sun Sep 11, 2016 3:04 pm

No it certainly wont fall back to MSVCR71 as that's an older and different run-time (VS 2003 I think).
You will probably find the the "missing" DLL is not actually used... If it were used and missing, then there would be a problem.

Regarding the latest - it sounds like, as you say, it starts and immediately crashes (before a change to initialize the log file or crash handler). So it could be something XMBC is doing at start up.... You could try running XMBC from the command line and put /debug after the exe name..

> cd "c:\program files\highresolution enterprises\X-Mouse Button Control"
> X-Mouse Button Control.exe /debug

See if a log file is generated. I can also make a "special" version of the EXE that pops up messages to the screen so we can figure out where its going bang if need be.
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Re: Can't start XMBC on WinXP 32bit

Post by phil » Sun Sep 11, 2016 3:07 pm

Actually, a good thing to try....
Get hold of DbgView (from sysinternals/microsoft) https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sys ... gview.aspx and run that. Then start XMBC and see if anything is logged to dbgview - XMBC outputs debug to the debugstream (that dbgview looks at) at startup before th elog file is initialized so its worth a look!
debugview.png
Thanks,
Phil
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Re: Can't start XMBC on WinXP 32bit

Post by injtsvetkov » Sun Sep 11, 2016 3:42 pm

OMG!

I got nothing from both methods!

> cd "c:\program files\highresolution enterprises\X-Mouse Button Control"
> XMouseButtonControl.exe /debug

The process shows up for a sec and disappears but no crash/log file is generated in c:\program files\highresolution enterprises\X-Mouse Button Control (I suppose it has to show up in it).

Next I open up DbgView and start XMBC via the .exe and via the cmd with /debug option - nothing shows up in DbgView (?). Is there some settings in this app which can make any difference?
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